ideas are nothing outside the system within which they derive their identity from their opposition to other ideas. anika lemaire : jacques lacan - q: what’s your name? a: (pause) you know my name. q: this is just for the tape. a: (pause) you’re not going to use it, are you? q: if i write about it i’ll change your name. a: [name]. q: age? a: thirty-two. q: occupation? a: (pause) does that really matter? q: you don’t want to answer? a: i don’t see what it has to do with anything. q: o.k. how would you describe yourself physically? a: five ten. a hundred and seventy-five pounds. pretty good build. dark hair. seven and a half inches. q: you think that’s relevant? a: yes. q: how would you describe yourself personality-wise? a: outgoing. friendly. strong. q: how about where you grew up? a: (pause) i don’t see where that matters either. q: it’s just a question. a: (pause) east lansing, michigan. q: when did you first figure out you were gay? a: i was pretty young. i started when i was fifteen. q: figuring it out or having sex? a: having sex. q: do you want to tell me the circumstances? a: it was someone in high school. q: someone you went to school with? a: yes. q: who started it, him or you? a: i don’t remember. q: you don’t? a: no. q: just once or more than once? a: more than once. q: what happened? a: what do you mean? q: what did you do with him? a: (pause) i don’t want to talk about that. q: why not? a: i don’t think it matters. we did high school stuff, o.k.? that’s all. q: and after high school? a: after high school i went to college and after that i moved to chicago. q: were you still having sex in college, with guys? a: yes. q: tell me about that. a: (long pause) you know, this is not what i thought we were going to talk about. q: what did you think we were going to talk about? a: the leather scene. q: i’m just trying to set up some background here. to show how you got where you are now. a: (pause) (slowly) it doesn’t really matter. there was nothing before that. q: what do you mean? a: there wasn’t anything really important that happened before i got into what i do now. that’s when i started. that’s when i think i was born. you see this? q: yes. a: that’s the day. q: i should say that [name] has a tattoo on his right bicep. ex eye period ex eye period em see em ex see eye eye eye. a: november eleven nineteen ninety three. q: what happened then? a: that was my birth into leather. q: do you want to talk about that? a: no. q: why not? a: (pause) that’s not for everybody. q: but that’s what they want to know about. a: then they can just fuckin’ do it themselves, can’t they? q: why are you upset? a: i’m not upset. q: then answer the question. a: no. q: why not? a: because there are some things i’m not going to talk about. q: why not? a: because there’s some stuff you just don’t talk about. q: why not? a: because it’s private. it’s not for those outside the leather community. q: then why are you here? i told frank i wanted to find out more about leathermen. i wanted him to put me in touch with someone who would be willing to answer questions. that’s why he introduced us. a: you think? q: (long pause) well, yeah. a: so i’m here. q: (pause) when we met i told you i needed the research and you said you’d answer my questions honestly. you said you would do this so people would understand more. a: for people to understand leather, yes. for people to get off on knowing what i do, no. q: so you’re not going to tell me anything you do. sexually, i mean. a: (long pause) i don’t know. maybe i might. q: fine. what CAN you tell me about your ‘birth’ as you call it. a: can i smoke? q: yes. let me get you an ashtray. (silence) a: thanks. q: so. your initiation. a: (pause) it was good. my master knew what he was doing. q: and you met him how? a: just around. he was recommended. q: why did you want to do it? a: i knew it was what i wanted. q: because? a: because i knew it was what i wanted. that’s all. q: and what did you want? a: i wanted to be part of the leather community. q: why? a: they were hot. they were masculine. i liked the way they carried themselves. q: so you told him what? a: excuse me? q: this master dude. what did you tell him? a: don’t call him that. q: why not? a: it’s not respectful. q: i’m not the one who has to respect him. a: (pause) o.k. q: i mean don’t get upset if i don’t use the right words or anything. you know more about it than i do so you’re going to have to cut me some slack here. a: o.k. q: so what did you tell him? a: that i wanted him to teach me. q: teach you what? a: how to be a good leatherman. q: and did he? a: he got me started. q: how did he get you started? a: he taught me obedience. and respect. q: and how did he do that? a: sex. q: how? a: what do you mean ‘how’? q: i mean how did he teach you? what did he do? give me an example. a: (pause) he taught me endurance. he did stuff to me and i lasted. q: give me an example. a: (pause) he would whip me sometimes. q: and did you like that? a: yes. q: didn’t it hurt? a: yes. q: and you liked it. a: yes. q: and you let him do it to you? a: (pause) that’s not the right way to put it. q: what IS the right way to put it. a: he did it to me. that’s all. q: i don’t understand. a: no. you wouldn’t. q: (pause) what else? a: i don’t know. just how to be. q: how to be what? a: no. just how to be. q: i don’t understand. a: (pause) he would tie me up and leave me in the closet for a while. q: how long? a: a while. q: give me a specific time. a: (pause) the longest was from one afternoon to the next. q: tied up in a closet. a: yes. q: what was that like? a: it was good. q: ‘good’? a: yes. q: why? a: it taught me a lot about myself. q: what. a: it taught me patience. and . . . how to deal. q: what was it like in there? a: dark. q: (laughs) a: what so funny? q: nothing. what did you do while you were in there? a: nothing. q: you were tied up? a: yes. q: how? a: he had tied my arms behind my back and my legs together and i had a gag in my mouth. q: and you liked this? a: yes. it was good for me. q: what else did he do to you? a: other stuff. look, do we really need to go over all that? q: why not? i want to know what you do. a: why? q: i’m interested. i’m not going to go do it myself so i have to ask people what they do in order to find out what it's like. a: maybe you should just do it yourself. q: no. i don’t want to. a: why not? q: not my scene. a: some people do and some people don’t. q: what’s that supposed to mean. a: nothing. q: (pause) so what else did he do to you? a: other stuff. q: like? a: he would have somebody over and they would do me. q: ‘do you’? a: yes. q: both of them. a: yes. or more. q: more. a: yes. q: (pause) what would they do to you? a: jason . . . (stops himself) . . .forget i said that. q: (quietly) forgotten. a: (pause) he would have some other men over and he’d have me do stuff. q: like what? a: (pause) i’d suck them off. q: all of them? a: yes. q: what was that like? a: i liked it. i like sucking dick. q: do you? a: yeah. don’t you. q: (laughs) i’ve done it once or twice. a: i’ve done it a lot. q: yeah? a: yeah. q: so what would you do when you sucked these men off? a: different stuff. i’d be wearing my chaps or my vest or something. he’d tie my p.a. up. sometimes he’d tie my hands or put me in handcuffs. i’d get down on my knees and they’d come over and stick their dicks in my mouth. the usual. q: you call that ‘the usual’. a: for me, yeah. q: and how many of them would there be. a: usually one or two. q: besides jason? a: don’t do that. q: sorry. a: (pause) usually one or two more besides him. sometimes more. q: how many more? a: (pause) we had this party once. he had a couple of the other men bring over their slaves too. there were three of us and probably . . . i’d say about thirty or so of them. they made us get on our knees and we blew all of them. q: wait, i’m not following you. the three of you blew all of them or what? a: the three of us sucked all of them. they walked around. so each of us sucked on all of them at least once. then they came on us. so maybe ten guys or so came on each of us. something like that. q: i have to admit that sounds hot. a: it was. q: did you do that often? a: not really. a couple of times. most of the time if we had company he would just get one other man and the two of them would work me over. q: how? a: putting me in the sling. fucking me. tit torture. you know, shit like that. q: i don’t know shit like that. a: your loss. q: whatever . . . anything else? a: what do you mean? q: anything else they did to you? a: listen, it’s not going to matter. i’m not going to be telling you all this stuff just to give you something to jerk off to later. q: i don’t think there’s any way you could stop me. a: (pause) fuck you. q: (pause) do you ever notice how hostile most leathermen are? a: we’re not hostile. q: yes you are. a: we’ve got pride. that’s something you don’t know about. q: (long pause) really. a: (long pause) o.k., maybe that wasn’t fair. but leather pride is something different. q: how is it different? a: it just is. q: but you can’t define it, you can’t tell me what it is? a: if you haven’t done it, you haven’t done it. that’s all i’m going to say. q: i can live with that. (silence) a: what else do you want to know? q: what other kinds of things did you do? a: name something. q: water sports. a: yes. q: what was that like? a: fine. q: do you want to elaborate? a: no. q: genital torture. a: yes. q: did it hurt? (laughs.) a: (pause) it isn’t funny. q: sorry. i just cracked myself up. a: whatever. q: what did you learn from that? a: endurance. q: you keep coming back to ‘endurance’. what exactly does that mean to you? a: being able to bear pain. q: and that’s it? a: no. endurance is endurance. it means being strong. it means being a man. q: ‘being a man’? a: yes. q: what does putting up with pain have to do with being a man? a: men are strong. q: so you’re doing all this to become a strong man? a: i already am a strong man. q: no, but you’re doing to it to BECOME strong. a: i was already strong. i just didn’t know it. doing these things showed me that i’m strong. q: what . . . what’s so important about being strong? a: being a strong man is sexy. q: so it’s about being sexy? a: and strong, yes. q: (silence) a: there’s nothing sexier than a strong man. a big dominant muscular strong man. q: what’s so sexy about it? a: (sighs) q: no, i just want you to tell me. a: (long pause) i like men. big men with big dicks. big hard cocks fucking my mouth and my ass. big men with big muscles and attitude. i like being around them. i like sucking them. i like smelling them. i like licking the sweat off their tits. i like eating their asses until i fucking pass out. i like everything about them. their muscles, their hair, their dicks, everything. i like them fucking me and pulling on my tits and hitting my balls until i fucking scream. i like their cum on me and i like them to jerk me off until i shoot my fucking load. that’s all i like. i like men. that’s all. does that answer your question? q: for now. a: (silence) q: can i ask you a question? a: shoot. q: do you know your hiv status? a: (pause) yes. q: can i ask you what it is? a: i’m negative. q: have you been tested? a: yes, i said i’m negative. what does that have to do with anything? q: just wondering. it seems like you’ve had a lot of sex. a: (pause) i know you’re not stupid. why are you asking me that? q: has it had any effect on your sexual behavior, being negative? a: no. not really. i mean, it was already around before i really started having sex. and i’ve been careful. i haven’t done any of that stupid bareback shit or anything. q: what do you define as bareback? a: fucking without a condom. letting somebody come in your mouth and swallowing it. q: but you will suck somebody off. a: hey, man, i’m not going to make every man i suck put a rubber on first. there would be no fucking point to sucking dick if i had to do it with a rubber in my mouth every time. so yeah, i’m going to let somebody put their dick in my mouth and i’m going to suck on it. but i trust them not to shoot in my mouth and i think i can stop them from doing it if i think they’re going to. they can come on my face all they want. q: so your hiv status hasn’t affected your leather activity at all? a: it has nothing to do with it. q: no? a: no. i mean, all that stuff is something else. most of the time it’s not even about the coming. it’s about all the other stuff. you might finish off with the cum but before that you’ve done ninety-nine percent of the sex anyway and it’s all safe. q: do you let guys spit in your mouth? a: how do you know about that? q: i watch videos. a: sometimes. if i’ve known them for a while. not strangers. q: what about blood? a: (pause) what blood? q: i mean if you’re getting whipped. a: (pause) usually that doesn’t happen. q: usually. a: if it does happen it’s for a special occasion and it’s very safe. trust me. but what are you bringing all this up for? do you mean you wouldn’t have sex with someone if you knew they were positive? q: no. a: ‘no’ you wouldn’t or ‘no’ it doesn’t matter. q: no, it doesn’t matter. a: well, that’s cool. i don’t think it matters either. q: where do you see yourself in five years? a: what do you mean? q: do you see yourself still doing what you’re doing now. a: oh, yeah, of course. q: not going to change to being a master or anything like that? a: i don’t know. maybe. anything’s possible. but i doubt it. q: why? a: well, i mean it’s possible. but i’m not thinking about that right now. q: what are you thinking about right now? a: nothing. getting by. (silence) q: so when did you move to denver? a: about two years ago. q: because . . . a: it was work-related. i had to. q: how do you like it here? a: it’s alright. i like the mountains. but it’s no chicago. q: well, no. i like chicago for a vacation but i don’t think i could live there. because of the weather. a: yeah, it can get rough. q: i thought you liked it rough. a: ha. ha. q: what about the leather scene here? a: in denver? q: yeah. a: there’s not much of one. q: i don’t know about that. i mean, i see them out sometimes but i have to admit i don’t really know any of those people personally. a: i know some of them. they’re alright. but like i say it’s not chicago. chicago is the leather capital of the world. q: really? a: oh, yeah. it’s got it all over san francisco or new york or anywhere else. q: why is that, do you think. a: i don’t know. it just is. q: do you ever get back there? a: every couple of months i go back for a weekend. i need to. q: ‘need to’? a: yeah. q: because . . .? a: just what you think. q: and what do i think? a: don’t you know? (silence) q: what about here? what do you do here for sex? a: i have sex sometimes. if i’m wearing my leather sometimes some guys invite me to party with them or something. it’s cool. q: and what do you do with them? a: we have sex. (pause) you’re kind of pervy about this, you know? q: why. because i’m asking you what you do? a: yes. q: you think that makes me a pervert. a: i think you’re probably going to jerk off after i leave. q: i doubt it. i have other things to do today. a: yeah. right. q: (pause) you know, the whole world doesn’t revolve around leather. a: yes it does. q: do you really think that or are you just saying it? a: i really think that. q: there’s a lot more going on in gay life, and the world, besides the leather scene, a lot more important stuff. a: (pause) maybe there is. but not for me. q: don’t you think that’s kind of narrow? a: no. (silence) q: do you ever have sex with anybody and not have leather be a part of it? a: (long pause) sometimes. more than i used to lately. q: how do you do that? a: what do you mean? q: how do you have sex without leather? a: the usual stuff. sucking and fucking. q: like normal people? a: (snickers) yeah. q: why are you laughing. a: no reason. q: so you do have regular sex. a: sure. why not. but what you call normal sex and what i call normal sex are probably two different things. q: probably. a: but you know there’s no such thing as normal sex. at least not the way i do it. q: really? a: oh yeah baby. (silence) q: do you do dom/sub? a: using big words now, are we? q: just answer the question. a: that might happen, yeah. but that happens anyway. there’s always going to be one guy telling another what to do in bed. q: not always. a: what, you don’t tell some guy “suck my dick”? q: that’s not dom/sub. a: whatever. q: it isn’t. just because i’m telling some guy to suck my dick doesn’t mean i’m being dominant. a: anytime any guy is getting sucked off he’s in charge. anytime any guy is sucking cock he’s not in charge. q: i don’t think that’s necessarily true. a: depends on how you look at it, i guess. q: so you say that if you’re making some guy suck your dick you’re being the master? a: more or less. q: more, or less? a: more. q: so you DO switch off between being master and slave? a: i wouldn’t put it that way, but yeah, sometimes, i guess. q: do you fuck guys? a: top them? q: yes. a: yeah. sometimes. q: what makes the difference? a: what difference. q: between you wanting to fuck some guy and wanting him to fuck you. a: i just decide. q: YOU decide? a: (pause) if he tells me he WANTS to fuck me, i fuck HIM. if he tells me he’s GOING to fuck me, he does. q: do you like getting fucked? a: yeah. who doesn’t? q: i’ve met guys who don’t like getting fucked. a: what’s the point then? q: of what? a: of being gay. q: there’s more to being gay than getting fucked. a: i know. i’m just saying i don’t see why anybody wouldn’t want to get fucked. (silence) q: have you ever been fisted? a: of course. q: you’re not going to tell me about that either, i guess. a: why should i? q: why shouldn’t you? a: have you? q: what? a: been fisted. q: (pause) yes. a: then why are you asking me? q: i just wanted to know. a: yeah, i bet. q: (long pause)(quietly) and if i do decide to jerk off later thinking about you getting fisted what do you think about that? a: (another long pause)(also quietly) like you said, there’s nothing i can do about it. i can’t stop you. you’re going to do what you want to do. q: maybe i will. a: have fun. (silence) q: what do YOU think about when you jerk off? a: different stuff. q: like what? a: men. q: men plural? a: what? q: when you jerk off do you think about a bunch of men or just one man? a: both. q: what else? a: what? q: are you just lying on your bed or are you watching videos or looking at magazines or what? a: none of your business. q: no? a: no. (silence) q: doesn’t matter anyway. a: what? q: (long pause) i can tell them whatever i want. i can make up something and put it in here about how you jerk off. a: (quietly) you’re something of a prick, you know that? q: me? nah. a: i don’t think i want to do this anymore. q: why not? a: you’re going to fuck me over. q: not if you cooperate. a: fuck you. q: see. hostile. a: i’m hostile ‘cause you’re being a dick. q: am i? a: yes. q: and you can’t take it? a: you’re not respecting me. q: how do you know? a: ‘cause you’re talking shit to me. q: maybe i’m just trying to provoke you. a: you are. q: what. a: provoking me. pissing me off. q: into what? a: into nothing. i have control over myself. q: lucky for me. a: yes. (silence) q: if you did have anything to say to the people reading this, what would it be. what do you want me to tell them? a: nothing. q: nothing? a: no. what they think means nothing to me. q: how about what i think? a: even less. (silence) q: do you think the leather community is misunderstood? a: yes. absolutely. q: in what way? a: (pause) they think we’re stupid. q: i never said you were stupid. a: i’m not talking about me. i’m talking about what you said, about other people. q: point. is that . . . do you think that they would . . . benefit from . . . a different understanding of the leather community? a: i don’t know what you’re driving at. q: you say that you don’t care what people think of you . . . a: no. q: . . . i guess i lost my train of thought. a: you were talking about people understanding the leather community. q: right. but if you say you can’t be understood and you don’t care what people think about you . . . a: . . . yes . . . q: then why are you here now? a: (pause) it sounded like fun. q: ‘fun’? a: yeah. you’re the one who invited me over here. i thought it would be interesting. q: (long pause) why? a: (pause) i’ve seen you around. i know what you do. the writing, i mean. and i’ve heard about you from people . . . q: (pause) what did you hear? a: it doesn’t matter. q: maybe to me it does. a: and what does it matter to YOU what people think about you? q: i’m not heartless. a: (pause) i’m not either. (silence) q: so who were you talking to? a: guess. q: (pause) frank. a: maybe. q: what did he tell you? a: don’t you know? q: (pause) i know what happened. i’m just wondering what his version of it was. a: why don’t you tell me your version? q: (pause) he wanted me to fuck him. i told him no. a: that’s what he said. q: i’ll give him credit for that. a: why didn’t you want to fuck him? q: what i told him. a: that you didn’t like to top. q: that’s not exactly it. i told him that guys keep coming up to me in the bar and asking me to top them. that’s all he offered me. he said he didn’t give his ass up for just anybody but that he thought he’d give it up to me. i told him that . . . it didn’t matter to me. i don’t like feeling like somebody’s sex toy. a: was that true? q: which part. a: was that why you didn’t want to fuck him? q: yes. a: what’s wrong with being somebody’s sex toy? q: nothing. a: so it wasn’t just that. q: (pause) not exactly. a: it was him. q: i never said that. a: didn’t have to. q: (pause) i wasn’t interested in fucking him. a: are you interested in fucking me? q: are you offering? a: no. q: then why did you say it? a: just fucking with your head. q: you like fucking with my head? a: maybe. q: don’t do that. a: why not? q: just don’t. a: because you have to be the one in control? q: i don’t have to be in control. a: yes you do. that’s what this is all about. q: is it? a: isn’t it? (silence) q: i don’t think i could control you. a: i know you couldn’t. (silence) q: what does it take to control you? a: you have to have my respect. q: and i don’t? a: (pause) no. q: why not? a: because you haven’t done the necessary stuff. q: what? a: those men who can control me are very good and they’ve been trained in what it takes to control someone. you don’t just get that position automatically. you have to be a good master who has also been trained by a good master. it’s a . . . it’s very important to keep to the system. q: (pause) another criticism some people have leveled against the leather world is that it’s very exclusionary, that the men who do it have isolated themselves from the gay world in general. a: i wouldn’t say that. i would say we represent the best of the gay world. q: excuse me? a: we’ve gotten gay sex down to the basics. hard men having hard sex with each other. q: (laughs) a: what the fuck are you laughing about. q: that is such bullshit. a: no. it isn’t. q: don’t you see that it’s just a lot of macho posturing? it’s just the same kind of bullshit that straight men carry on with. a: (pause) straight men don’t have the nuts to have sex with each other. we’re even stronger than they are. q: hmm. so what’s this strong man sex like? a: it’s good. q: what do you do? do you tie each other up and piss all over each other? get in a sling and get fucked by half the fuckin’ state? a: you’re really starting to piss me off. q: you know, at this point i really don’t care. a: (pause) i think i’m going to go. q: fine. a: you know. it’s people like you who don’t give us the respect we deserve. q: respect for what? being an asshole? a: fuck you. q: you wish. a: bend over. (silence) a: are we done yet? (silence) q: what’s the best sex you ever had? a: what? q: what’s the best sex you ever had? a: it’s all good. q: no, come on. tell me about it. wasn’t there one time you remember more than the rest? a: (pause) why do you want to know? q: (pause) it might turn me on. or maybe you don’t want to do that. (silence) q: or maybe you can’t. (silence) a: (pause) i guess maybe . . . there was this one time . . . q: tell me about it. a: why should i? q: are you scared? a: no. q: well then. (pause) how about if you tell me, then i’ll tell you. a: tell me what? q: the best sex i ever had. a: not interested. q: (pause) how about if you tell me, i’ll let you ask me whatever you want. a: (pause) anything? q: yes. a: (pause) it was one of my times with . . . my master. q: the guy in chicago? a: yes. q: go on. a: we had been together a while. six months maybe. i was already his. one night we had been out at the bars. he hadn’t been letting me drink. he hadn’t been drinking either but he usually didn’t. i didn’t think much about it ‘cause it was saturday night and i figured when we got back to his place there was going to be something going on. he never liked me to do anything if i was drunk. anyway, we get back to his place. it’s late. he tells me to go downstairs and clean up. i took a shower and cleaned my ass out. i sat on the cot waiting for him. he came down and got me started . . . q: (interrupting) got you started? a: blew me. got me hard. q: oh. a: he had these shackles bolted into the wall. he put me in them. facing the wall. he spread my legs apart. whipped my ass. a long time. more than usual. it was rough. he’d stop and get under me and blow me some more until i was hard again. until i was almost coming. then he’d whip me some more. he kept doing this, going back and forth. after a while i couldn’t get hard anymore. it hurt too much. so he stopped blowing me. he got one of his dildos and shoved it up my ass. he fucked me with it. a long time. (silence) q: how long. a: a long time. i don’t know. not an hour. almost. i wasn’t . . . he just kept going and going. it felt like he was turning my insides out. (silence) q: were you still chained up? a: yes. he kept pulling my legs back and spreading them apart. it was hard to stand up. he kept fucking me until . . . (silence) q: did you tell him to stop? a: no. of course not. don’t be stupid. q: (pause) why did he stop? a: i don’t know. he just did. he ate out my ass for a while. then he fucked me. q: himself? a: yes. he fucked me until i came. q: (pause) how did you come? a: (pause) it hurt so much i came. (silence) q: jesus. a: yeah, well. q: you weren’t jerking off. a: no. (silence) q: what happened then. a: he let me down. i blew him. thanked him. (silence) a: it was hot. q: yeah, sounds like. (silence) a: are you hard. q: (long pause) yes. a: see? q: what. a: leather sex’s the best. (silence) q: so what did you want to ask me. a: (long pause) anything? q: yes. (silence) a: when was the last time you got fucked. q: you mean . . . a: i mean the last time you got fucked. q: about two months ago. a: details. q: (pause) i was at the ‘t’. i was pretty drunk. it was last call. when i was walking out through the parking lot over to the light rail station i saw this guy in a pick-up. not really my type but . . . well, he was one of my types, but not one of the main ones. a: what type was he? q: white trash. tall. skinny. mustache. ballcap. you know. a: yeah. q: he asked me if i wanted a ride. a: i bet. q: (pause) i said “sure”. he drove me home. he came in. he fucked me. a: details. q: not much. we got in bed. he had a big dick. a: what did it look like? q: not very long. i mean, not long long. but thick. you know that kind that’s kind of flat but wide? a: yeah. q: like that. it was big. i blew him for a while. he didn’t blow me. he said he wanted to fuck me. i said yes. a: what did he do. q: first he wanted me to lay down on my stomach. i don’t like that position much when i’m getting fucked but i didn’t really care. he fucked me for a while like that. a: did you like it, getting fucked? q: (pause) yes. a: was he wearing a rubber? q: of course. a: did you put it on him or did he put it on himself. q: he put it on himself. a: go on. q: he fucked me like that for a while. but i couldn’t get at my dick so i kept pushing my butt up. he pulled me up onto my knees and fucked me like that. i started jerking myself off. a: while he was fucking you. q: yes. then he started going “you like that, don’t you bitch? you like getting fucked up the ass.” a: yeah. q: he kept doing that. and fucking me. then he said “i’m gonna come bitch” and i pulled my ass off him. he didn’t like that, he went “fuck!”, but i don’t like guys coming up my ass, even if they’re wearing a rubber. he pulled it off and beat off on me. on my ass, i mean. a: did you come. q: no. a: why not. q: i just didn’t. after he shot off he got dressed and left. a: why didn’t you come. q: i would have if he’d have kept fucking me. but he didn’t. after he left i got out my poppers and watched a video and jerked off. a: (long pause) who was he? q: i don’t know. i haven’t seen him around again. a: so what did he look like? i might know him. q: (pause) i’m not telling you that. a: why not? q: (long pause) why do you want to know? a: just because. q: why? a: i think maybe i fucked him. q: you fucked him or he fucked you. a: (pause) he fucked me. q: what do you care if it’s the same guy or not. a: i don’t care. q: apparently you do. a: why would i care? q: (long pause) all of a sudden you’re taking an awful lot of interest in my sex life. a: so. q: for somebody who doesn’t care. a: i don’t care. q: are you hard? a: no. q: are you sure? a: you want to see? q: no. a: then you’re just going to have to take my word for it. (silence) q: anything else you want to know? a: (long pause) was that true? q: what. a: what you just told me. q: yeah, of course. why not. a: (pause) it didn’t sound right. q: what didn’t sound right about it? a: i don’t know. it sounded like something you made up. q: you said he fucked you too. a: (long pause)(slowly) that doesn’t mean you didn’t make it up. q: how would i make it up if i didn’t know what his dick looked like? a: see. you made it up. q: why do you say that. a: that’s the kind of thing you’d say if you were lying. q: (pause) did you tell me the truth about what you said? a: about what. q: about that whole whipping butt-fucking thing. a: (pause) yes. q: how do i know that? a: i don’t lie. q: (pause) well, i do, sometimes. but that’s not the point. a: isn’t it? q: so. what if i did lie. what if i made it all up. a: that’s not very nice. q: ‘nice’? ‘nice’?! a: you know what i mean. q: big butch man wants me to be ‘nice’?! a: see, just what i said. i have pride and you don’t. q: i have pride. a: not if you have to lie to me you don’t. q: maybe i wasn’t lying. maybe i was telling the truth. a: i don’t think so. q: give me a break. i could come up with something better than that if i was lying. i’d have made something up about some big sexy strong leather man taking me home and me getting to fuck him. a: i wouldn’t have believed it. q: why not. a: i just wouldn’t. q: you don’t think i could fuck some leatherman. a: i doubt it. q: you don’t think i could fuck you if i wanted. a: i know you couldn’t. q: frank wanted me to fuck him. a: frank’s frank. i’m me. q: how ‘bout if i told you that i want to fuck you. a: do you. q: (quietly) sure, why not. a: (pause) i wouldn’t let you. q: no? a: no. q: why not. a: (pause) i’m particular about who i let fuck me. q: so what’s wrong with me. a: (pause) let’s not go there. q: come on. i can take it. a: not my type. q: i got a big dick. a: that’s not enough. q: what’s enough. a: somebody to turn me on. q: i don’t turn you on. a: (pause) no. q: liar. a: i’m not lying. q: yes you are, you look a little nervous. a: ‘cause you’re getting on my nerves. q: i know. but i also know you want to fuck me but you just won’t admit it. a: (long pause) that’s not what we’re talking about. q: what? a: we were talking about you fucking me, which is not going to happen. we weren’t talking about me fucking you. q: (pause) and is that going to happen? a: no. q: why not? a: you don’t deserve it. q: (long pause) don’t deserve getting your dick up my ass? a: no. q: (pause) so you’ve thought about it. (silence) don’t lie. a: (pause) yes, i’ve thought about it. but it’s not going to happen. q: why not. a: because you don’t turn me on anymore. q: ‘anymore’? a: (quietly) shit. q: you said ‘anymore’. a: that’s not what i meant. q: what did you mean? a: (pause) nevermind. q: (long pause) o.k. a: can we just wrap this up? q: sure. why not. i don’t know that we have anything else to discuss. a: me neither. (silence) q: so you do have sex without the leather. (silence) a: sometimes. if i can’t get it the right way. q: ‘the right way’? a: with leather. q: and sex without leather is ‘the wrong way’? a: no. just not the way i want it. q: when was the last time you had sex the other way? a: i thought we were done. q: if you want. i thought maybe you had something more to say. a: like what. q: i don’t know. i just thought maybe we’d talk some more. a: why? q: just because. - comments on this or my other stories to maxsprouse@earthlink.net
